IGF 2023 - Day 3 - WS #62 Data Protection for Next Generation: Putting Children First - RAW

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

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>> ANANYA SINGH:  Good afternoon, good evening to all those

    who have joined us on-site and online.  Welcome to the Data

    Protection for Next Generation, Putting Children First.  I would

    like to encourage on-site and remote participants to scan the QR

    code which will be available on the screen shortly.  Or use the

    link in the chat box to express your expectations from this

    session.  As a reminder I would like to request all the speakers

    and the audience who may ask questions during the Q&A round to

    please speak clearly and at a reasonable pace.  I would also like

    to request everyone participating to maintain a respectful and

    inclusive environment in the room and in the chat.

        For those who wish to ask questions during their Q&A round,

    please raise your hand.  Once I call upon you, you may use the

    standing microphones available in the room.  And while you do that,

    please state your name and the country you are from before asking

    the question.

        Additionally please make sure that you mute all the other

    devices when you are speaking so as to avoid any audio disruptions,

    in you are participating online and have questions or comments and

    would like the moderator to read your question type it in the chat

    box.  When posting start and end your sentence with a question mark

    to indicate that it is a question.  Or use a full stop to clearly

    indicate that it is a comment.

        Thank you.  Let us now begin this session.

        Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much again for joining

    today's session.  I am Ananya, I will be the on-site moderator for

    today's session.  Mariam from Gambia will be the online moderator

    and Neli from Georgia will be the Rapporteur for this session.

    Today we embark on a jurn that I that transcends the the boundaries

    of traditional discourse and into the realm of safeguarding

    children's lives.  In this age of advancements we had find

    ourselves standing at a pivotal juncture where the collection and

    utilization of children's data has reached unprecedented heightses.

    From the moment their existence becomes evident, their digital

    footprints begin to form.  Shaping their online identities even

    before they can comprehend the implications.  Ultrasound images,

    search engine inquiries, the vast Web of interconnected plat fors

    weaves a taptry of data capturing every heartbeat and interactions.

    Amid this digital tapestry lies a profound challenge the protection

    of children's data and right to privacy.  Children due to their

    tender age and limited understanding may not fully grasp the

    potential risks, consequences ans safeguards associated with the

    processing of their personal information.  They're often left

    vulnerable, caught in the crossfire between their innocent

    expiration of the online world and complex Web of data collecting

    institutions.  Today we are gathered here to delve deeper into the

    discourse on children's online safety.  Moving beyond the usual

    topics of cyber bullying and Internet addiction.  Our focus will be

    on answering the following questions.  How do we ensure that

    children in different age groups understand value and negotiate the

    self and privacy online.  What capabilities of vulnerabilities

    affect their understanding of their digital data and digital

    rights.  What is good age verification mechanism so that such

    mechanism does not in inset end up checking even more personal

    data.  And finally, how can we involve children as akive partners

    in the development of data governance policies and include their

    volume offing capabilities, relief experiences and perceptions of

    digital world to ensure greater intergenerational justice, laws

    strategies and programs.  We hope this workshop will help the

    attendees unlearn the current trend of universal and often adult

    treatment of all users, which fails to respect children's evolving

    capacity lumping them into overly broad categories.  Attendees will

    be introduced to the ongoing debate of digital consent.  Panelists

    will elaborate on the children's data self, participants will be

    given the flavor of varying national and international conventions

    concerning the rights of children regarding their data.  As our

    speakers come from a range of stakeholder groups they will provide

    the attendees with the detailed idea on how a multistakeholder

    intergenerational child centered, child rights based approach to

    data gov nons policies and regulations can be created.  I invite

    you all to actively engage in this session to listen to our

    esteemed panelists and ask questions, contribute insights and share

    perspectives.  I would like to introduce our speakers for today.

    To begin with we have professor Sonia Livingstone, a professor at

    the department of media and communications at the London school of

    economics.  She has published about 20 books and advised the

    UNcommittee on the rights of the child, OACD, and UNICEF on

    children's safety, privacy and rights in the digital environment.

        Next we have Edmon Chung who serves as the board of Asia on

    the board of ICAN, I sok, Hong Kong and found the the international

    film festival and participates on Internet Governance matters.

    Next we have nej nenl nem, senior program analyst in the division

    of USAID, efforts to Internet affordable, protecting children and

    youth from digital harms.  Next we have Emma Day, a human rights

    lawyer specializing in human rights and technology and also the

    co-founder of tech legality.  She has been working on human rights

    issues for more than 20 years now and has lived for five years in

    Africa and six years in Asia.  And last but not least, we have

    Theodora Skeadas, who is a technology policy expert.  She consults

    with Civil Society organizations including but not limited to the

    endowment for national peace, national democratic institute,

    committee to protect journalists and partnerships on AI.  I would

    like to move to the next segment.  I invite our speakers to take

    the floor and convey their opening remarks to our audience.  I

    invite professor Sonia Livingstone to please take the floor.

        >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE:  Thank you very much for that

    introduction.  It's wonderful to be part of this panel.  So I want

    to talk about children's right to privacy in the digital

    environment and as with other colleagues here I'll take a child

    rights focus recognizing holistically the full range of children's

    rights in the convention on the rights of the child and then homing

    in on article 16 on the importance of the protection of privacy.

        So I was privileged be to part of the drafting group for

    general comment No. 25.  Which is how the committee on the rights

    of the child specifies how the convention applies in relation to

    all things digital.  And I do urge people to read the whole

    document.

        Just here highlighted a few paragraphs are the importance of

    privacy.  And the importance of taking -- of understanding and

    implementing children's privacy often through data protection and

    through privacy by design.  As part of a recognition of the wider

    array of children's rights.  So to respect privacy, must be

    proportionate, part of the best interests of the child.  Not

    undermine children's other rights, but ensure their protection.

        And I really put these paragraphs up to show that we are

    addressing something complex in the off-line world and even more

    complex I fear in the digital world.  Where data protection

    mechanisms are often our main but not only tool to protect

    children's privacy in digital contexts.

        I'm an academic researcher, a social psychologist.  In my own

    work I spend a lot of time with children seeking to understand

    exactly how they understand their rights, their privacy, and we did

    an exercise as part of a -- some research a couple of years ago

    that I wanted to introduce the types of privacy and the ways in

    which children as well as we could think about privacy.

        So as you can see, on the screen, we did a workshop where we

    asked children their thoughts on sharing different kinds of

    information with different kinds of sources.  With different

    organizations.  What would they share and under what conditions

    with their school, with trusted institutions, like the doctor or a

    future employer.

        What would they share with their online peers and contacts?

    What would they share with companies and what did they want to keep

    to themselves?

        And we used this as an exercise to show that children know

    quite a lot, they want to know even more, and they don't think of

    their privacy only as a matter of their personal, their

    interpersonal privacy.  But it is very important to them that the

    institutions and the companies also respect their privacy.  And if

    I can summarize what they said in one sentence, the idea that

    companies, which take their data and exploit their privacy, the

    children's cry was, it's none of their business.  And the irony

    that we are dealing with here today is that it is precisely those

    companies' business.

        We can see some similar kinds of statements from children now

    around the world.  In the consultation that was conducted to inform

    the UN committee on the rights of the child's general comment 25,

    and as you can see here, children around the world have plenty to

    say about their privacy.  And exactly understand it both as a

    fundamental right in itself, and also as important for all their

    other rights.  Privacy mediates safety.  Privacy mediates dignity.

    Privacy mediates the right to information and so forth.

        Many more.

        I think we're now in the terrain of looking for regulatory

    straefrnls as well as educational ones, I was asked to mention I

    think this panel will discuss the idea of age appropriate design

    codes, particularly as one really proving a valuable mechanism.

    And we will talk further about this, I know.  But the idea that

   children's privacy should be respected and protected in a way that

    is appropriate to their age, and that understands the link between

    privacy and children's other rights.  I think this is really

    important.  And we see this regulatory move now happening in a

    number of different international and national contexts.

        I spent the last few years working with the five rights

    foundation as part of the digital -- running the digital futures

    commission.  And I just wanted to come back to that holistic point

    here.  In the digital futures commission we ask children to comment

    and discuss all of their rights in digital contexts, and not just

    as a research project, but as a consultation activity.  To really

    understand what children think and want to happen and what -- to be

    heard.  On a matter that affects them.  And privacy online is

    absolutely a matter that affects them.

        And we use this to come up with the proposal for child rights

    by design.  Which builds on initiatives for privacy by design.

    Safety by design, security by design.  But gsz beyond to recognize

    the holistic nature of children's rights.  And so here we really

    pulled out 11 principles, based on all the articles of the UN

    convention on the rights of the child and on general comment 25.

        And so you can see that privacy is a right to be protected in

    the design of digital products and services, as part of attention

    to children's and the age appropriate service, building on

    consultation, supporting children's best interests.  Promoting

    their safety, well being, development, and agency.

        And I will stop there.  And I look forward to the discussion.

    Thank you.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much professor liefg stone

    that was very insightful.  We will now move to Edmon.  Would you

    like to take the floor?

        >> EDMON CHUNG:  Hello.  Thank you.  Thank you for having me.

    And eed monofrom South Asia.  We will be sharing -- I guess

    building on what Sonia just mentioned, we will be sharing a little

    bit about our work at dot kids, which actually also kind of trying

    to operationalize the convention on the rights of the child.

        But first of all, I just want to give a quick background, why

    dot Asia is involved in this.  Dot Asia ourselves is a -- obviously

    operates the dot Asia top level domain.  You can have domains as

    whatever, dot Asia.  That provides the income source for us.  And

    so every dot Asia domain actually contributes to the Internet

    development in Asia.  One of the things -- some of the things that

    we do include youth engagement and we actually are very proudly --

    proud that the net mission program is the longest standing youth

    Internet governance engagement program.  That sort of built our

    interests or our awareness to supporting children's and children's

    rights online back in 2016 we actually launched a little program

    that looked at the impact of sustainable development goals and the

    Internet.  And we recently launched an eco Internet initiative.

    But I'm not going to talk about that.

        What I want to highlight is that engaging children on

    platforms including domain, top level domains, is something that I

    think is important.  And one of the things that I would like to

    share.

        So on the specific topic of dot kids, actually the dot kids

    initiative started more than a decade ago in 2012 when the

    application for dot kids was put in to -- through ICAN for the dot

    kids top level domain.  Right at that point actually there was an

    engagement with the children's rights and children's welfare

    community about the process itself.  But I won't go into detail.

    What I did want to highlight is that part of the vision of dot kids

    is actually do engage children to be part of the process in

    developing policies that affect them.  And to involve children's

    participation and so on, and in fact in 2013 during the process we

    were going through the ICAN process, we actually helped support one

    of the -- well, the first children's forum that is focused on the

    ICAN process itself.  And that was held in April of 2013.

        Fast forward ten year, we were finally able to put dot kids in

    place in late -- well actually last year.  But the dot kids top

    level domain actually entered the Internet on April 4th of 2022.

    And was launched late last year in November, 29th.  Of 2022.  So it

    is less than a gear old.  So really not even a toddler.  For dot

    kids.

        But let's focus on the difference.  I mean, that between dot

    kids and for example dot Asia or dot com.  Right?  Is it.

        I mean, one of the interesting things is that at the ICAN

    level there is no difference.  For ICAN, you know, operating a dot

    kids would be exactly the same as operating dot com.

        We disagree and that's why we engaged into the decade-long

    kind of campaign to operate dot kids and believe that there are

    policies that are required above and beyond just a regular

    registry, a regular dot com or dot wherever.  Because there's not

    only a set of expectations, there are -- it is important for -- and

    here's why we say it's the kids' best interest domain.  That is the

    idea behind dot kids, let's look at part of the registry policies.

        But for dot kids ourselves, if you, you know, think about it,

    of course we don't keep children's data or data about kids.  But

    does that mean we don't have to have policies that actually is

    around the registry or for dot kids domains itself?

        Well, we think no.  And building off what professor living

    stone was saying, in fact we have a set of guiding principles at

    that was developed with the support from the children's rights and

    welfare community and based on the convention of the rights of

    child.  And of course there's additional kids-friendly guidelines,

    there's kids and tie abuse policies and personal protection

    policies.  Highlight the entire guiding principles is based on the

    convention of the rights of the child and probably not all the

    articles, but certainly articles that outlines protection and

    prohibited materials.  It kind of -- way to think about it is

    probably that all four of the dot kids domain, we do enforce and to

    ensure that restricted content -- and the best way to think about

    it is really that if you think of a movie, the restricted content

    or the rated R movies with obviously not be acceptable on dot kids

    domains.

        But on top of that we also have specific privacy provisions

    also built on article 16 as Sonia mentioned earlier.  And some

    other as specks that is around the conventions of the right of

    child:

        So we think that is -- there's something that is important and

    is being built into it.  And we're probably -- we definitely the

    first registry that is built policies around convention on the

    rights of the chielt.  But we're also one of the very few domain

    registries that would actually actively engage in suspension of

    domains or processes to deal with restricted content.

        Beyond that there's a portal and a platform to report abuse

    and to alert us on issues and in fact I can report that we have

    already taken action on abusive content and restricted content and

    so on.

        But I will like to end with a few items.  There are certainly

    a lot of abuses on the Internet, but the abuses that is appropriate

    for top level domain registries to actually take is a subset of

    that.  There are many other abuses that happen on the Internet, and

    you know, there are different types of DNS abuses and different

    types of cyber abuses that may or may not be effective for the

    registry to take care of.

        And that's I guess part of what we discuss, that's why we

    bring it to this -- to IGF in these type of forums to discuss is

    because there are other stakeholders that needs to be -- to help

    support a safer environment online for children.

        So with that I -- there are a number of acts that are -- that

    are put in place in the recent years, and I think dot kids will try

    to -- is a good platform to support the kids safety online bill in

    the U.S. and on the online safety bill in the U.K.

        .  We do believe that collaboration is required in terms of

    security and privacy.  And one of the vision, as I mentioned for

    dot kids, is to engage children in the process and we hope that we

    will reach there soon.  But you know, it's still in its toddler

    phase so it doesn't generate enough fwhk for us to bring everyone

    here.  But the visitself is to put the policies and protection in

    place and also into the future be able to support children's

    participation in this Internet governance discussion that we have.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you.  That was very inspiring.  Let's

    now go to.

        >> NJEMILE DAVIS: .  Thank you, thank you for giving me the

    opportunity to peek about the work in this area.

        So U.S. aid is a ind at the present time agency of the United

    States government where I work with 9,000 colleagues.  And 100

    countries around the world to provide humanitarian relief and fund

    international development.

        In the technology division where I sit, there are a number of

    initiatives that we support related to digital innovation from

    securing last mile connectivity to catalyzing national models of

    citizen-facing digital government.  And we work in close

    collaboration with our U.S. Government colleagues in Washington to

    inform and provide technical assistance, to support locally led

    partnerships, and to create the project ideas and infrastructure

    needed to sustain the responsible use of digital tools.

        Although we rely consistently on researching, developing and

    sharing best practices, our activity design can be as varied as a

    specific country and community context in which we are called to

    action.  Indeed the many interconnected challenges that come with

    supporting the development of digital societies has challenged our

    own evolution as an agency.

        So in early 2020 we launched USA's first digital strategy to

    articulate our internal commitment to technological innovation, as

    well as for the support of open, inclusive and secure digital

    ecosystems in the countries we serve.  Through the responsible use

    of digital technology.  So that digital strategy is a five-year

    plan that is implemented through a number of initiatives and there

    are some that are particularly relevant to our work with young

    people.  Specifically we have made commitments to improve digital

    literacy, to promote data literacy through better awareness,

    advocacy and training for data privacy, protection, and national

    strategies for data governance.  To improve cyber security, to

    close the gender dij tam divide and address the disproportionate

    harm women and girls face online.  And to protect children and

    youth from digital harm.

        Each of these initiatives is supported by a team of dedicated

    pro professionals that allow us to work at the intersection of

    children and technology.  Digital tools play an increasingly

    important role for adults working to protect children, for example

    by facilitating birth registration, providing rapid family tracing,

    supporting case management, and by using better, faster analysis of

    the data collected to inform the effectiveness of these services.

    And they can also play a role in the development and integration of

    children themselves into larger social and cultural norm it is by

    providing a place to learn, play, share, explore, and test new

    ideas.  Indeed many children are learning how to use a digital

    device before they even learn how to walk.

        However, we also know that increased digital access also means

    increased risk.  And so in the context of protecting children and

    youth from digital harm, US aid detines digital harm as any

    activity or behavior that takes place in the digital ecosystem and

    causes pain, trauma, damage, exploitation or abuse, directly or

    indirectly in either the digital or physical world, whether

    financial, physical, emotional, psychological, or sexual.

        For the estimated one in three Internet users who are

    children, these include risks that have migrated onto or off of

    digital platforms that enable bullying, harassment, technology

    facilitated gender based violence, hate speech, sexual abuse and

    exploit Ace.  Recruitment into trafficking and radicalization into

    violence.  Because digital platforms share copious amounts of data

    our colleagues who have done an incredible amount of highly

    commendable work at UNICEF for example around children's data, as

    well as my kol healings on today's panel will likely agree that

    there are other perhaps less obvious riss.  For example we observed

    in recent years that children seem to have given up or in uniformed

    consent of their data collection.  Probably due to their naivete

    and trust of the platforms in which they're engaging.

        But a lack of informed decision-making about data privacy and

    protection effectively transfers power from the data subject to the

    data collector and the consequences of this can be long-lasting.

    The number of social media likes, views and shares are based on

    highly interactive levels of data sharing.  Affecting children's

    emotional and mental health.  Data algorithms can be leveraged to

    profile children's behavior, narrowing exposure to new ideas,

    limiting perspective and even stunting critical thinking skills.

    Data leaks and privacy breaches that are not just harmful on their

    own but can be orchestrated to cause intentional damage is another

    risk.  We can counter act these and other challenges by helping

    practitioners understand the risk to children's data and to ensure

    accountability for bad actors.

        The theoretical physicist Albert Einstein famously quoted

    saying that if he had one hour to solve a problem he would spend 55

    minutes thinking about the problem and only five minutes on the

    solution.

        And this year amount of data that we generate and have access

    to means that our vision of solving the global challenges we face

    with data is still very much possible.  Especially as we are

    realizing unprecedented speeds of data processing that are fuelling

    innovations and generative AI, or enable the use of 5G and that we

    will see in quantum computing.  As we celebrate the 50th berth day

    of the ipt net at this year's IGF, it's amazing to think how much

    all of us here have been changed by the technological innovations

    paved by the Internet.  In that same spirit of invasion, we're opt

    mistake -- can help mitigate the risk we see today and lefrnl z to

    create a more inclusive and more exciting world of tomorrow, which

    is the Internet our children want.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much, Njemile.  And Man Hei,

    would you like to take the next?

        Emma, are you here with us?

        >> EMMA DAY:  Thank you, yes.  Can you see my screen?

        Yes, please go ahead.

        >> EMMA DAY:  Thank you.  I've been asked to answer how Civil

    Society organizations can tackle the topic of child centered data

    protection.  I think this is a multistakeholder issue and there are

    many things that Civil Society organizations can do.  As a lawyer

    I'm going to have a focus on the more law focussed ideas.  There

    are three main approaches that I have identified.  The first is

    Civil Society organizations can engage in advocacy related to law

    and policy.  Second they can engage themselves in litigation.  And

    request regulators, I should say.  And third, they can carry out

    community-based human rights impact assessments themselves.  So the

    first example of advocacy related to law and policy, the target is

    policy-makers and regulators, ago an example of this I was involved

    in a project that was led by professor Sonia Livingstone, also on

    this panel.  This was part of the U.K. digital futures commission.

    Chk it was a project which involved a team of social scientists and

    lawyers, we looked in detail as how the use of Ed in schools is

    governed in the U.K.

        We found it's not very clear whether the use of Ed tech in

    schools was covered by the U.K. age appropriate design code or

    children's code.  The situation of data protection for children in

    the education context was very uncertain.  We had a couple of

    meetings with the ICO.  And the digital futures commission had a

    group of high level commissioners they had got together from

    government, civil society, the education sector and the private

    sector.  And they helped to -- held two public meetings about the

    use of Ed tech in U.K. schools.  Subsequently in May 2023 the ICO

    published updated guidance on how the children's code applies to

    the use of Ed tech in U.K. schools.  I won't go into the details

    about guidance now but suffice to say this was much needed

    clarification and it seemed to be as a result of our advocacy,

    this was not specifically stated.

        The second example, it's a Civil Society organizations

    engaging themselves in litigation and requests to regulators.  So

    Civil Society organizations have lawyers as part of their staff or

    they can work with lawyers and other experts.  So an example of

    this is an organization in the U.S. called fair play.  In 2018

    they led the coalition asking the Federal Trade Commission to

    investigate -- for violating the children's privacy protection act

    by collecting puzzle information from children on the platform

    without parental consent.  As a result of their complaint Google

    and YouTube were required to pay a record 170 million dollars fine

    in the settlement in 2019.  With the Federal Trade Commission.

        So in response rather than getting required parental

    permission before collecting personal information from children on

    YouTube, Google claimed instead it would would limit data

    collection and eliminating personal advertising on their made for

    kids platform.  So perhaps they will wanted to check if YouTube

    had really eliminated personal advertising or make the kids

    projects.  And they run their own test by buying some personalized

    ads.  Fair play says that their test proves that ads are made for

    kids video.  In fact still personalized and not contextual.  Which

    is not supposed to be possible at copper, in fact they wrote to

    the Federal Trade Commission in August 2023 and made a complaint

    and asked them to investigate and to impoles a fine of upwards of

    tens of billions of dollars, we don't know the outcome of this

    yet.  That complaint was only put in in August of this year.

        And then the third solution which I think is a really good one

    for Civil Society organizations, which I haven't really seen done

    completely in practice yet is to carry out community-based human

    rights impact assessments.  So companies themselves carry out

    human rights impapg assessments but it's something that can be

    done at community level.  And this involves considering not just

    data protection but also children's -- human rights as well.  A

    multidisciplinary effort.  So involves consulting with a company

    about the impact of their products and services on children's

    rights.  Perhaps working with technical experts to test what's

    actually happening with children's data throughout some platforms.

    And working with legal experts to assess whether this complies

    with laws and regulations.  Crucially this should involve

    meaningful consultation with children.  I think we're going to

    talk later about what meaningful consultation with children really

    looks like.

        I'm going to leave it there because I think I'm probably at

    the end of my time.  But looking forward to discussing further.

    Thank you.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much Emma.  And finally,

    Theodora, would you like to let us know what your remarks are?

        >> THEODORA SKEADAS:  Hi everybody it's great to be here with

    you.  Let me just pull up my slides.

        Alrighty.

        Okay.  Hold on one second.

        Let me just grab -- okay.

        Great.  So...alrighty.  So it's great to be here with all of

    you.  And I'll be spending a few minutes talking about key

    international children's rights principles, standard the and

    conventions.  As well as major issue areas around personal data

    collection, processing and profiling.  And then some regulation

    legislation to be keeping an eye out for.  So I'll start with

    standards and conventions and then turn to principles.  Some of the

    major relevant standards and conventions that are worth discusses

    are listed here which include the UN convention on the rights of

    the child.  A widely ratified international human rights treat at

    this which inshines the rights of all children under age 18.  A

    number of provisions relevant to children's data protection such as

    the right to privacy, the right to the best interests of the child,

    and the right to freedom of expression.

        Also the UN guidelines for the rights of the child as it

    relates to the digital environment in 20 dwun, these guidelines

    provide guidance around how to apply the UN CRC, or rights of the

    child to children's rights in the digital environment.  And include

    a number of provisions relevant to children's data protection like

    the right to privacy and confidentiality.  The right to be informed

    about the collection and use of data and the right to have data

    erased.  The general protection regulation, a comprehensive data

    protection law that applies to all organizations that process data

    for those in Europe although sometimes this has been extended

    beyond specifically for companies or employers that are

    international and exist beyond the European area.  Includes

    provisions for children as well.  And the children's online privacy

    protection act in the U.S. is a federal protection law that

    protects the privacy of children under age 18 and requires parental

    consent before using children ace personal information.  Some of

    the principles that are important to discuss here include data

    collection, data use, data storage and security, data access, and

    erasure, transparency and accountability.  So this means that

    organizations should only collect data for legitimate purposes and

    with the consent of parents and guardians.  Data use is that

    organizations should use children's data in a way that is

    consistent with their best interest.  Data storage and security,

    appropriate security measures to protect children.  Data access and

    erasure, organizations should give chirp and their parents or

    guardians access to data and right to have it ear racialed.

        Organizations should be trance parent about whatter they're

    doing to make sure they're protecting children.  Age appropriate

    design, privacy by default frpgs data minimization and data

    controls prouds and services should be involved with the best

    interest in mind and for age and developmental stage.  Privacy by

    default products and services should be developed with privacy in

    mind.

        And data minimization, products and services should only

    collect and use the minimum amount of data required and product

    controls, provide parents with meaningful control over their

    children's online activities.

        So major issues around personal data collection, pros shesing

    and profiling that are in discussion today.  Include consent, so

    children may not fully understand what it means to consent to the

    collection and use of their personal data.  That's also true for

    adults.  But especially true for children.

        Transparency.  Organizations may not be transparent about how

    they collect, use and share children's personal data.  Which can

    be -- make it difficult for parents to make informed decisions

    about their children.

        Data minimization, so organizations often collect more

    personal data than is necessary for the specific purpose.  And this

    excess data can have other purposes like targeted ads,

    preprofiling.  Daily at that security, organizations may not be

    implementing adequate security measures to protect data of chifrp

    from unauthorized access, and destruction which can put children at

    risk.  And foe filing, organizes may use children's data to create

    profiles with used to target children with advertising and content

    that might not be in their best interests.

        Additionally strengthening legal protection.  There's an

    ongoing conversation around how governments can strengthen legal

    protections for children.  Such as requiring parental consent and

    prohibiting organizes from profiling children through targeted

    advertising.  Raising awareness.  Thooer is a huge conversation

    ongoing now about how prirnts and children should be educated about

    risks and benefiting about sharing information on line.  Alsoism

    proved transparency and accountability.  ORSes should n transparent

    about how they collect, use and share children's personal data and

    be accountable for that date that.  Last designing -- products and

    services that collect and use less personal data from children.

    And also that help children and parents manage their privacy

    online.

        So next we'll look at regulation and legislation.  We've been

    seeing a huge amount of regulation and legislation in this space in

    the U.S. context we've seen some, U. svenlt federal bills, but

    because those haven't passed we've been seeing a transition to

    state-level bills.  So I want to pull up -- there we go.  So this

    is is a piece that I wanted to share that talks about bills in the

    area.  That we've seeing in the U.S.   Near is here a compilation

    of 147 bills.  Across the U.S. states.  Not all represented but a

    lot of them are.  Interestingly, dates across the political divide.

    And you can see here the legislation that's in discussion includes

    themes like age verification, instruction, parental consent, data

    privacy.  Technologies, access issues.  More age verification.

    That's clearly a recurring theme.  Recommendations on the basis of

    data.  Et cetera.  And you can see here there's some categories.

    We see law enforcement, parental consent, age verification,

    privacy, school-based.  Hardware, filtering.  Perpetrator.  That

    looks at safety.  Algorithmic regulation and more.  And then we can

    see the methods.  These include third parties, state digital I. did

    thes, commercial provider.  Government (I.D.s) I.D.s, self

    attestation.  And you can see what ages these are targeting, mostly

    age 18, a few look at 13 and sometimes other ages as well.

        And then the final categories of analysis look at access

    limited content or services, enforcement types and status.  And I

    think that is it.  Thank you so much.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much, Theodora.  I have

    received a request from the audience.  If you could kindly share

    the link to the website that you were sharing with us, that would

    be great.

        .  It was a very, very good remark.  Thank you very much.

        Okay.  So we will now be moving onto the next segment where I

    will be directing questions to each of our speakers.  We will begin

    with professor Sonia Livingstone.  While I had a set of questions

    prepared for you, professor livingstone I think you kind of

    answered most of those.  Let's pig something from what you have

    focussed on in your opening remarks.  You mention about age

    appropriate design code.  I want to know what are your views on

    this age appropriate design code for different countries since in

    different cultural, national, international and local contexts,

    what is appropriate for what age differs.  So what would you like

    to say about that and how can an age appropriate design code be the

    answer in such varying contexts?

        >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE:  That's a great question and I think

    others will want to pitch in.  I think my starting point is to say

    that if we're going to respect the rights of children online, we

    have to know which user is a child.  And the history of the

    Internet so far is a failed attempt to respect children's rights

    without knowing which user is a child.  So at the moment we either

    have no idea who a user is or we somehow assume or produce a

    product, producers somehow assume that the user is an adult, often

    in the Global North, often male, and rather competent to deal with

    what they find.

        So we need a mechanism.  And age appropriate design code has

    become exactly this mechanism.  And I think the extent to which

    it's being taken up in the Global North and the Global South shows

    the genuine need to identify who is a child.

        There are two problems.  One, you didn't highlight, but it

    does mean that we need to in some way identify the age of every

    user in order to know which ones are children.  Because we don't

    know obviously who is a child before.  There was a real set of

    questions around the mechanism.  And which others have alluded to.

    And then as you rightly so, what is appropriate for children of

    different ages varies in different cultures.  I think I would

    answer that by returning to the UN convention on the rights of the

    child.  It addresses the child rights at the level of the

    universal.  The right to privacy, the right to safety, the right to

    information, the right to civil rights and liberties to participate

    and be heard and so forth.  We can conceive of children's rights at

    the universal level.  But there were also many provisions in the

    convention and also in general comment 25 about how this can be and

    should n adjusted and tailored to particular circumstances.  Not to

    qualify or undermine children's rights, but to use mechanisms that

    are appropriate to different cultures.  And I think this will

    always be contested.  And probably should be.  But at heart the --

    if you read the age appropriate design codes, they focus on the

    ways in which data itself is used by companies in order to support

    children's rights.

        Rather than setting a norm for what children's lives should

    look like.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much professor Living stone.

    That was a fairly detailed and very nuanced answer.  Next, Ed mono,

    since we are on the subject of age, what do you think is a good age

    verification mechanism that does not in itself lead to the

    collection of more personal data?

        >> EDMON CHUNG:  That is a very difficult question.  I guess a

    few principles to start with, first of all, privacy is not about

    keeping data secure and confidential.  Privacy the first question

    is whether the data should be collected and kept in the first

    place.

        So in terms of privacy, if it is just an age verification, and

    whoever verifies is r it discards or erases or deletes the data

    after the verification, there should be no privacy concern.  But of

    course platforms and providers don't usually do that.  And that's

    one of the problems.  Right?

        But the principle itself should be -- just like when you show

    your I.D. or whatever, the person takes a look at it, you know, you

    go in and that's it.  They don't take a picture of it and keep a

    record of it.  So that's privacy.

        To start with.  The other thing then we need to probably think

    about whether the age verification is to keep children out, or let

    children in.  Right?  I mean that's -- it's a big difference, you

    know, in terms of how you would then deal with it.

        But especially on weather or not data should be kept or should

    be discarded.  Now on the actual verification mechanism I think in

    fact there is well-developed systems now to do what is called

    pseudonymous credentials, the platform or provider doesn't have to

    know the exact data but can establish digital credentials with

    digital certificates and cryptographic technologies, techniques

    such that parents can vouch for the age and complete the

    verification without disclosing the child's personal data.  I think

    these are the mechanisms that are appropriate and more importantly,

    I guess I go back to the main thing is that if it is just for age

    verification, whatever data that was used should be discarded the

    moment the verification is done.  And that is the -- that gives you

    real privacy.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much.  That was very

    comprehensive.  Next, Njemile Davis how is the -- relating to

    children's data.  Related to children's governance?

        >> NJEMILE DAVIS:  We spend a lot of time talking about data

    governance.  That's because data really fuels technology that

    others use that generates data in some way or uses data for its

    purpose.

        And technologies have a tendency to reinforce existing

    conditions.  And so we want to be really intentional about how data

    is used to that end.  Data governance is important for a few

    basicing reasons.  One is because data by itself is not

    intelligent.  It's not going to govern itself.  And because data

    mult my plies when you divide.  We know the shared amount of data

    that we're generating needs to be wrangled in some manner if we're

    going to have some control over the tools we're using.  So data

    governance framework helps us to think about what needs to be

    aprevioused with the data, who will make decisions about how the

    data is treated and how governance of the data will be immremed.

    Writ large we look at five levels chk of data governance

    implementation and that's everything from trans national data

    governance, down to individual protections and empowerment.  That's

    really the sweet spot for us in thinking about children.  It's

    about developing awareness.  And agency, about participation in

    data ecosystems.  In the middle is thinking about sectoral data

    governance where we find that they're a highly developed, norms

    around data privacy, data decision making, data standardization

    that helps structure data driven tools like digital portals for

    sharing data.  And so we are currently working with Mozilla

    foundation on a project similar to the one that we heard Emma

    talking about where we are working in India and India's public

    education sector to think about data governance interventions

    there.  India has one of the largest if not the largest school

    systems for children in the world.  150 million children are

    enrolled in about 1 and a half million schools across the country.

    India had one of the largest -- longest periods of shut down during

    COVID-19.  And Ed tech stepped into that gap very awe true stickily

    to try to close gaps in student education.  However, as again Emma

    has pointed out and we have found in our own research there was

    some nuances in the ways that these Ed tech institutions were

    thinking about student learning chk compared to the way schools

    were.

        And so private industries incentivized by number of users, and

    not necessarily learning outcomes.  There needed to be some clarity

    around the types of standards that Ed tech companies are to meet.

        There's a reliance on Ed tech replacing teachers, interaction

    with students.  And data subjects generally lacking awareness about

    how their data is used by Ed tech and schools to measure student

    progress and learning.

        So we're currently working with a number of working groups in

    India to really understand how to bridge this gap.

        And to synchronize the collection of data and data analysis

    that harmonizes analog tools with digital tools.  So teachers who

    are taking attendance, how does that correlate to scores on Ed type

    platforms?  So we're focussed right now on the education sector but

    we imagine this is going to have implications for other sectors as

    well.  We're working -- I don't know if I mentioned this is with

    Mozilla foundation and working in partnership with Mozilla to look

    at responsible and ethical computer science for University students

    in India and Kenya and here we're hoping to educate the next

    generation of software developers to think more et ibly about the

    social impacts of the technology they create including generative

    AI.  And then going back to chk the protecting children and youth

    from digital harm that we're doing, we are extremely proud to be

    working alongside and supporting youth advocates through our

    digital youth council.  We have Ananya, who participated in cohort

    1 and nej yes, ma'am who I believe was in the room earlier to

    moderate the chat session who are extraordinary samples of the type

    of talent we have been able to attract and learn from.  In year two

    of the cohort we received almost 2700 am kags worldwide.  From that

    number we selected 12 council members and we're anticipate l just

    as fabulous results from them.

        And so that's generally how we are thinking about children's

    data through our data governance frameworks.  Chk.

        I think just kind of riffing off of what I have heard today,

    we can also advocate through data governance for inclusion and

    enforcement of the right I goes of children international data

    privacy laws especially as we know in IGF lots of countries are

    thinking about how to develop those privacy laws, we should be

    advocating for the rights of children to be included.  In Civil

    Society there's opportunities to explore alternative approaches to

    data governance.

        Data cooperatives, which are community-driven, can help groups

    think about how to leverage their data for their own benefit:

    Civil Society perhaps has room to explore the concept of data

    intermediaries where they are a trusted third party and that works

    on behalf of vulnerable groups like children to negotiate when

    their data is accessed.  And to also inForbes sanctions when data

    is not used in the way that it was intended to.  Chk.

        Ananya Singh thank you so much.  Since Njemile has ash on

    Civil Society.  Why don't we move to Emma Day and ask her next

    question.  Emma, how do you think Civil Society organizations could

    work with children to promote better data protection for children?

        >> EMMA DAY:  Thanks so much for the children.  I think Jamila

    came up with good starting points for this conversation already.  I

    think to involve children it has to really be meaningful.  One of

    the difficulties not just with children in -- with consulting with

    communities in general on these topics of data governance is it's

    very complex and hard for people to understand immediately the

    implications that data processing for that range of rights,

    particularly projecting into the future and what those future

    impact the might be.  I think to begin with to make that

    consultation meaningful you have to do a certain amount of

    education.  I think some of the great ways to do this, to involve

    children this things like data subject access requests where they

    can be involved in the process of writing to a company and

    requesting the data that that company is keeping on them so they

    can see in practice what's happening with their data and form a

    view on what they think about that.

        And for children to be involved in these kinds of community

    data auditing processes or -- so there is some auditing of AI,

    community-based processes that have been going on which I don't

    think have involved children so far.  Obviously older children

    could get involved in these initiatives.  Involving children in

    conceptualizing how data intermediaries can work best for children

    of different ages is really important.  This is something we talked

    about a couple of years ago now I was one of the authors of the

    UNICEF manifesto on data gov nons for children.  What Civil Society

    organizations can do to involve children.  I haven't seen a lot of

    this happen in practice chlths another one of the key things that I

    would like to see is the Civil Society organizations to involve

    children in holding companies accountable.  By auditing their

    products, by doing these kinds of community-based human rights

    impact assessments.  And I think we need to think about not just

    the platforms and the apps, but also some of the things like age

    verification tools, like Ed tech products, like health tech

    products, tools that are used in the criminal justice system, that

    are used in the social welfare system.  Really almost -- technology

    product the impack packet almost all areas of children's lives,

    private sector companies where they're providing solutions that are

    ee slengsly to promote children's rights.  We need to ensure that

    children involved in auditing those products are making sure that

    they really are having a benefit for children's rights.

        I think tho do that Civil Society organizations need to ensure

    that they involve academics, involve technologists and legal

    experts to make sure that they really get it right.  Because these

    are complex assessments to make.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much.  Let's move to

    Theodora.  I know you mentioned a lot about the existing

    international standards and children's rights and their data.  What

    about the regulations and legislations which are underway to

    address some of these concerns?  Are there any particular areas

    where these regulations could do better or any other suggestions

    that you might have for any such future conventions?

        >> THEODORA SKEADAS:  Hi everyone.  A really great question.

    Thanks, Ananya.  I'm going to screen share again so folks can see

    the database I was references earlier.  I think to me it's not so

    much that there are specific technical gaps in what we're seeing

    but rather -- and of course this is a U.S. focussed conversation.

    It's important to mention that there is legislation being discussed

    globally outside of the U.S. as well.

        And that legislation that's happening elsewhere is inclusive

    of children's safety issues.  So for example in the European Union,

    transparency related measures like the digital services act and

    digital markets act will have impact the on child safety and the

    U.K. online safety bill which is underway will also impact child

    safety and legislation discussions are happening elsewhere as well.

    Within the U.S. where this data set was collected and where my

    knowledge is strongest I think it is pretty comprehensive.

    Although it's interesting to note that one of the questions that I

    saw in the chat touched on a theme that wasn't discussed here in

    this legislation.  So specifically the question was whether there

    was -- I'm just looking through the chat again -- whether there

    was -- heir we go.  Oh, yeah, laws related -- or legislation

    related to assisted Ed tech in schools.  Chk I observed there are

    four school based policies and two hardware based policies.  But

    none of them are focussed on assistive Ed tech.  The ones that are

    focussed on schools look more at like access, age verification,

    policies and education.  And the hardware ones are focussed more on

    filtering and technical access.

        Rather --

        So you can see those here.  Requiring tablets and as a matter

    of fact phone manufacturers to have filters.  Enabled activation

    and only bypassed or switched off with a password.

        So you can see that there is a -- quite a range.  I think to

    me the bigger concern is whether this legislation will pass.  We

    see a really divided political landscape, and even though we're

    seeing a proliferation of data and data-related issues around

    children in legislative spaces, the concern is that there isn't

    going to be a legislative majority for this legislation to pass.

        So it's not per se that I see specific gaps, and more that I

    have broader concerns about the viability of legislation and the

    quality of the legislation.  Because not all of it is equally as

    high quality.  And so I think the increasing fraught political

    landscape that we find ourselves in is making it harder to pass

    good legislation.  And there are competing interests at play as

    well.

        Thank you.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much.  I would now like to

    thank all our speakers for sharing their insights with our

    attendees and at the same time I would like to thank our attendees

    who I see are having a lively chat in Zoom.  Hence since you have

    so many questions, why don't we open the floor for questions from

    the audience.

        We would be taking questions from both on-site and online

    audience.  If you're on-site and if you have a question, you have

    to stand -- two stand mics right there.  Kindly go to the

    microphones and ask your question by stating your name and the

    country you're from.  And post that we will be taking questions

    from the chat.

        R.

        >> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  May I start?  My name is Utech control

    frchlt the gender tuments foundation there heading a project on

    children's rights in the digital environment.  First of all let me

    stayed I couldn't agree more with what Sonia said in her last

    statement that if you don't know the age of all users, age

    verification wouldn't make sense.  We need to know whether people

    are over a certain age, belong to a certain age group, or under a

    certain age.

        And my question would be we need to adhere to the principle of

    data minimization.  So whether any of you has already a thought how

    we can achieve that without creating a huge amount of additional

    data and even the digital services act doesn't allow to collect

    additional data just to verify the age of a user.

        So it's quite a difficult task.  And one has already -- Edmon

    has already said if we could trust companies when they do the age

    verification that they delete afterwards the data, but I'm not sure

    whether we can do so.  So that would be my question.

        And the second point would also go to the last speaker,

    Theodora, that when you give us a good overview on the legislation,

    the question would be how could we ensure that legislation that is

    underway takes into account from the beginning the rights of

    children?  Not like it was done in the GDPR in the last minute,

    putting a reference to children's rights into the legislation.

        Thank you for listening.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much.  Why don't we lead with

    the first half of the question and would any of the speakers like

    to take that?  And we would then direct the second question to

    Theodora.

        Yes.  Please go ahead.

        >>

        >> EDMON CHUNG:  I'm happy to add to what I already said.  In

    terms of those cases it's sue namized data.  Instead of collecting

    the actual data, there is a -- it is very possible for system like

    platforms to implement sued minized credentialed systems.  Those

    vouching for a participant's age could be distributed.  Right?  I

    mean could be schools, could be parents, could be chk your

    workplace or whatever.  But as long as it is not -- it is a trusted

    data storer that does the verification, and then keeps a

    pseudonymized credential, the platform should trust that

    pseudonymized credential.  I think that is the right way to go

    about it.  The other part I -- I -- as much as I still think it is

    the right way to ask for it to be deleted, can we trust companies?

    Probably vp probably not.  But of course we can have regulation and

    audits and those kind of things.

        But for trusted anchors, themselves also, whether the school

    or whether it's -- whatever trust anchor, that the person actually

    gives them age verification to, that institution should also delete

    the raw data and just keep the verification record, you know,

    verified or not verified.  And that's the right way to do privacy

    in my mind.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you.  Professor Livingstone wants to

    add something.  Go ahead.

        >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE:  Eed monosaid what I wanted to say.  I

    completely agree.  I've been part of the European agreement,

    consent, trying to find a trusted third party ind meet ri that

    would do the sage check, hold the token, and not have it held by

    the companies.

        So I think there are ways of being found.  Clearly the context

    of transparency and accountability and kind of third party

    oversight is scrutinizing those areas, solutions will really need

    to be strong.  And that also must be trusted.

        I'd add I think we should start this process with a risk

    assessment because not all sites need age checks, not all content

    is age appropriate for children.  One would like -- I would

    advocate that we begin with the most risky content and with risk

    assessment so we don't just roll out age verification excessively.

    I'll end by noting big tech already age assesses us in various

    ways.  I think the big companies already know the age of their

    users.  Through a greater degree of accuracy and we have no

    oversight and transparency over that.  I think the efforts being

    made are trying to write what is already happening and already

    happening poorly from the point of view of public oversight and

    children's rights.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you.  Emma?

        >> EMMA DAY:  Yeah, thank you.  I think this is still a

    question everyone's grappling with really.  And differing views may

    be in different jurisdictions around how well age verification

    products comply with privacy laws in different countries.  I would

    wreelly agree with what Sonia said about starting with a risk

    assessment.  I think we need to look at first what is the problem

    we're trying to solve and then is age verification the best

    solution.  Because to start with, if we're going to process

    children's data it it should be necessary pan proportionate.  We

    have to look at what other solutions there are, that are not

    technical first that might address the problem we're trying to

    address first.  Rather than looking at just age verification across

    everything.  I think also there's an issue within certainly under

    EU laws, sued ninize ation is right to say.  Pseudonymized data is

    still personal data in the GDPR.  Not that straight forward within

    the EU to youth auto MissEd data to -- European has not been

    settled yet either.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  O okay.  And Theodora.  Any remarks from

    you?

        >> THEODORA SKEADAS:  I think this is a really great question.

    It's not easy to ensure that legislation takes into account the

    stated rights of children.  I would start with education.  I think

    frankly from my experience interacting with legislators since I

    participate in the advocacy process, I found that most legislators

    are just underinformed.  And so making sure that they understand

    what these rights and principles and standards actually are.  What

    does it mean for the right to privacy?  To be manifest in

    legislation or like what are the best interests of the child?  What

    is the right to freedom of expression?

        What do we think about the right to be informed when it comes

    to children?  I think most legislators just don't really know what

    those things mean.

        And so educating them in particular building coalitions of

    civil society actors and multistakeholder actors can be very effect

    tich in educating and influencing educators around the rights of

    children.  And then as was also mentioned in the chat, I think Omar

    just put it in a few minutes ago, I believe including young people

    in decision-making processes is not just essential, it's

    empowering.  I think that's an important part of the process too.

    Bringing together legislators so the people who are actually

    writing legislation and the children themselves is really

    important.  So that the legislation process can be child-centric

    and really center the voices and experiences of the children we're

    trying to serve.  Last I think it's important to recognize this

    needs to be done in an inclusive way and engaging children from all

    different kinds of backgrounds so that all different experiences

    are included as legislation is happening.  But again I think

    education really is at the core here.

        Legislators want to hear from us.  And are excited when we

    raise our hands.  Thank you.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much.  We will now be taking

    questions from the online audience.  May I request the online

    moderator to kindly read out any questions or comments that we may

    have received from the online audience?

        >> So we have two questions from the online participants and

    two comments.  Question one is from Omar, who is a 17 yeefrld.  He

    asks how can initiatives be integrated into data governance and

    sharing that children have a voice in po policies that directly

    impact their digital lives.  He's a founder and President of OMNA,

    focussed on children's mental health and child's rights and he

    wants to increase his impact on data governance for children.

    Second question is from Paul Roberts from the U.K. and he asks when

    it comes to tech companies designing products and services how

    common is it for them to include in child rights design in their

    process and at what stage?  Proactive or afterthought for risk

    minimization?

        Comment one is also from Omar who said that he's from

    Bangladesh and one of the eight nominees for international

    children's rights for advocacy works.  He's the founder and

    President of project OMNAfshthsz and the youngest and only child

    panelist of every ding tal impact session representing children

    globally and providing statements on data protection and cyber

    security for children.  He suggested answer to a guiding questions

    that you started the session with.  That, one, (Man Hei Connie Siu)

    he suggests the use of interactive -- adapting these tools to

    different age levels.  Two, is that to collaborate with tech

    companies in order to develop age verification methods that employ

    user created avatars or characters, safeguarding children's data.

    Feedback will instrumental in refining this approach and three

    establish child led digital councils or direct input into policy

    decisions.  These groups should meet regularly ensuring feedback

    from children and aligning policies with evolving needs and digital

    experiences.

        The final comment is from Ying Chu, who said maybe the younger

    generations know more about privacy protection and how to protect

    their data than educators or us.  They were born in the Internet

    age and they are Internet kids.  Many of us are Internet

    immigration generation owe children's opinions are equally valid.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  That's it.  Any of these speakers or

    panelists like to take the two questions that are on -- my

    moderator just read out?

        >> NJEMILE DAVIS: I can start by addressing the first one.

    Omar you should apply to the digital youth council.  We are

    intending to have a third year and would love to see your

    application.

        One of the things that we tried to do there is to raise the

    voice of youth advocates not just to the level of international

    development organizations like U.S. aid, but to also empower them

    to activate other youth networks.  And in those efforts the level

    of awareness-raising, helps to inspire and incentivizes solutions

    that we have not thought of yet.

        There's this constant tension between adults who have

    authority to make decisions and children who understand what's best

    for them but perhaps don't have the agency to do such.

        And we tried to use this platform as a way to bridge that gap.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Okay.  Are there any other comments from the

    panelists?  And since we are running short on time, I would

    otherwise like to move to the next segment.  Okay.  We see

    professor Livingstone has comments.  I would request you to kindly

    keep it short.

        >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE:  I'll be brief.  I think everyone here

    is convinced of the value of youth participation and rightly so.  I

    think the challenge is for those who haven't yet thought of it or

    haven't yet embraced its value.  So my answer to Omar and also to

    Paul Roberts would be to talk more -- give more emphasis to child

    rights impact assessments.  I think many companies understand the

    importance of impact assessment of all kinds and the child right's

    iml packet assessment requires that youth participation as part of

    its process along with gathering evidence and considering the full

    range of children's rights.  Perhaps it's more a mechanism in the

    language of companies.  And so one that if child rights are

    embedded in the process, perhaps by requirement, I think that would

    make many improvements.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you professor Livingstone.  As we

    enter the final minutes of this enlightening session, I'm happy to

    invite our speakers to share their invaluable recommendations in

    less than a minute if possible.  The question for all the panelists

    is how can we involve children as active partners in the

    development of data protection policies to ensure greater

    intergenerational justice in laws, policies, strategies and

    programs.  Before I give the floor to our speakers I would also

    like to strongly encourage the audience to seize this opportunity

    and share their recommendations by scanning the QR code which is

    displayed on the screen or by accessing the link shared in the chat

    box.  I would like to welcome professor Livingstone to share her

    recommendation in less than a minute.

        >> SONIA LIVINGSTONE:  Thank you.  I've mentioned child rights

    impact assessment.  Perhaps that is my really key recommendation.

    I think that what we see over and again in youth -- child and youth

    participation is that children's aen young people's views are

    articulate, are significant, and are absolutely valid.  The

    challenge really is also for us who are adults.  Every time we are

    in a room or a meeting or process where we see no young people are

    involved, we must point it out.  We must call on those who are

    organizing the event and that includes ourselves sometimes to point

    out the obvious omission and to be ready to do the work to say

    these are the optimal mechanisms and here is a way to start because

    people find it hard but it really -- youth participation is

    absolutely critical in this -- and of course young people's right.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you.  Edmon?

        >> EDMON CHUNG:  I will be very brief.  I think a children's

    IGF has called for.  That's the beginning of this wider awareness.

    And I think the -- it's about building the capacity as well, right?

    You can't just throw children into the focus group for two hours

    and expect them to come up with a brilliant policy decision, right?

    So it's a long-term thing.  It starts with actually the Internet

    governance community and all these things that actually you have

    children as part of a stakeholder group and you know, that I think

    is probably a good way to go about it.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  And Njemile?

        >> NJEMILE DAVIS:  Thank you.  We need to do a better job

    discussing digital and data rights in formal education

    institutions.  I think we can do a much better job of that

    globally.  So that there's a welcome, encouraging environment to

    hear children, how they would like to advance their digital

    identities.  In a digital society they have awareness, they have

    tools and they have opportunities to do so.  In safe ways with

    mentorship and guidance.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Emma?

        >> EMMA DAY:  I would like to emphasize children are not a

    homogenous group.  It's important to send the most vulnerable and

    marginalized children within a country or geographically

    considering global reach that a lot of apps and platforms have

    these days.  There's a particularly great scholar I would recommend

    reading up on, Rigo's work from the design from the margins, she

    auks about if product the are designed for the educators for risky

    scenarios, until the end it's going to benefit much move.  I'm

    going to share that in the chat.  Thanks.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you.  Finally, Theodora?

        >> THEODORA SKEADAS:  It's worth mentioning again we need to

    be centering the voices of active participants in conversations

    about their well being.  So this can be done by including them in

    surveys, focus groups, workshops, various methods that are

    children-friendly.  In the legislative process I think that

    children should be empowered to advocate for themselves.

    Specifically older children.  But children from all different

    backgrounds.  This is will well being at stake.  When it comes to

    companies, I would like to see children represented on these

    advisory boards.  That hasn't traditionally happened.  And I put a

    few of advisory boards in the chat because thee are ways to elevate

    the voices of children directly in conversation with the people

    making policies for the platforms.  Thank you.

        >> ANANYA SINGH:  Thank you very much.  Ladies and gentlemen,

    as we come to the end of this enlightening session I would like to

    express my heartfelt gratitude to our distinguished speakers for

    their unwavering commitment to sharing their knowledge and

    expertise and for making our lives easier as moderators because I

    see you have been responding to the comments and questions in the

    chat box.

        I will also like to extend my deepest appreciation to the very

    active audience for their extremely energeticing engagement and

    thoughtful participation.  Without your participation this session

    would not have been as meaningful.  On the subject of people who

    have been instrumental in making this session a success, my

    teammates the tal lepted co-organizers of all the four workshops we

    have oeft hosted during the UN IGF, 2023.  Neli from Georgia, I

    cannot thank you both for your exemplary commitment, hard work,

    inspiring creativity and tireless efforts.  In the absence of all

    of which we would not have been able to create impact we have.  I

    want everyone here in attendance to be aware of appreciate the

    accomplishmentes and personal sacrifices.  The team has made you

    keep this ship afloat.  It was my good fortune indeed to have had

    the honor of leading this exceptional team.  So thank you once

    again for making this happen.

        As we conclude this session, I urge all of us to kindly

    reflect on the insights we have gained and the recommendations put

    forth.  Let us not let this be just another event or seminar, but

    rather a catalyst for action.  It is up to each of us to take the

    lessons learned today and apply them in our respective fields,

    organizations and communities.  Together we can create a better

    world for ourselves and future generations.  And we are right on

    time.  Good-bye.  Thank you.